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Post by marktaggart on Aug 17, 2010 13:30:50 GMT -4
See, this is marketed under a different company banner than the Champions Of The Galaxy/ Filsinger Games stuff. It's not meant to be just another part of that world of products. Even though the characters and concepts are the same (or similar), this is the testing of the waters for something else entirely.
Lumping it in with the old stuff, especially a tired concept like Promoter, does nothing to expand the base beyond the current set of customers. That would be a horrendous lack of imagination and initiative on his part. This is not supposed to be a product that just appeals to the same old fanbase that buys everything. This is why he's out marketing this so aggressively. This is meant to be a springboard to a whole new realm of marketing and licensing options.
The way it appears to me, the ebooks (or DM books) are just sort of the "beta" phase of the new company. It's a bold move. Filsinger could keep churning out games for a small, loyal fanbase until he's 80, or he could go for a "sink or swim" type venture right now instead of looking back in old age and going "I wonder if......" On that level, I applaud the balls it takes to make the move.
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Post by antimony on Aug 17, 2010 15:52:50 GMT -4
Meh. If the target is an entirely new fan base, you need to offer more in the way of exposition regarding the characters, and the product needs more than a soft launch on a fan site with a couple hundred members and a web site no one's ever heard of.
If the target is the existing fan base, even as a preliminary "test market" iteration of the final product, there's no harm in sliding it into the Promoter.
I'm willing to bet that the set of people who buy the Promoter, but not the e-book, is relatively small. regardless.
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Post by wildfire on Aug 17, 2010 16:38:12 GMT -4
Perhaps you're right, Mark.. but if you are, then he's gotta do ALOT better on the marketing. I've rarely seen any mention of FG or Tom anywhere but the FG community, and most of those are casual. There's a few bits on Tabletop sports, but most of it is not very positive.
Going to the con's doesn't seem to have done it. There was, what, 5 new people on the board, and no particular uptick on guest views. While I don't check it very often, his twitter/facebook, etc doesn't seem to have any increase either.
Granted people certainly can buy the game without going online, but one would imagine some percentage WOULD go online... and that's really the only gauge to go by.
The fact that even his existing fan base isn't excited about the new venture is very telling, IMO.
TBH, I'm not sure WHAT the market is for what he's doing. If he wants to capture the gamers (people that like things like Heroscape) the game needs to be WAY higher production quality wise, and FAR more developed. Campaigns, Maps, etc. Either nice, color glossy cards like the GWF cards, with art, or miniatures ala heroclix.
If he's trying to write fiction, he needs more of a story, 100 pages is not a sci-fi novel, it's a short story in a collection. Splitting the difference, seems to be a sure way to disappoint both groups.
I'll grant this could be a 'beta' version. If so, then hopefully he's learned that he needs to step it up if he wants to succeed.
I'm sure there are hundreds of people out there writing fiction and posting it somewhere, either for free (to get eyeballs and thus adsense revenue on their website) or not free (as Tom is doing). The only thing that sets Tom apart is he already has a small yet loyal fan base to start from.
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Post by lwffantrav on Aug 17, 2010 17:02:06 GMT -4
Perhaps you're right, Mark.. but if you are, then he's gotta do ALOT better on the marketing. I've rarely seen any mention of FG or Tom anywhere but the FG community, and most of those are casual. There's a few bits on Tabletop sports, but most of it is not very positive. while most of us are fans on this board, most aren't "yes men" to Tom when it comes to things he puts out (unlike some other places). I'd be interested in hearing those other reviews. Do you have any links Wildfire?
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Post by wildfire on Aug 17, 2010 17:41:11 GMT -4
www.tabletop-sports.com/There's a section for legends, which as a few bootlegs, though (IMO) they're not that good. Here's a forum discussion about wrestling games... I think it was around the time when you had to post something somewhere to get Plethador/Scimitar. Ty posts a nice review, and a few others respond: www.tabletop-sports.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=281There's a link to desktop, too. I feel like there were a couple others around that forum, but I don't remeber which.. you'll recognize a few of the posted.... the guy that did the ICOF is in there with his own game.
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Post by lwffantrav on Aug 17, 2010 18:05:17 GMT -4
Wow, a wrestlingwars sighting! I wonder if that was our favorite tafkaga in the 1st post!?
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Post by wildfire on Aug 17, 2010 18:08:14 GMT -4
Heh, could be I know rickert used to be an FG board regular, as was Allen Shock (though that was back on Ingersoll's board at least)
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Post by wildfire on Aug 17, 2010 18:16:48 GMT -4
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Post by Dustin on Aug 17, 2010 18:24:56 GMT -4
I have no clue what this is... Who's John Nocero?
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Post by tyguy on Aug 17, 2010 18:35:07 GMT -4
I remember that name but can't recalll what he did.
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Post by graymar on Aug 17, 2010 18:39:46 GMT -4
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Post by wildfire on Aug 17, 2010 18:55:42 GMT -4
That's a really good article... I'm surprised I've never seen it before.. You'd think there would have been links to it and what not when it was new.
Maybe I just missed it.
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Post by lwffantrav on Aug 17, 2010 19:00:24 GMT -4
John is the guy who plays with his son alot when he has him on the weekends. He usually doesn't post on the main board (just the other board) because his computer won't allow him access on the main board at times (IIR). Good guy, never seen him cause trouble, but strange for a resume thing though.
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Post by Lone Star's Bitch on Aug 18, 2010 15:20:21 GMT -4
People have mentioned the 'yes men' and I find it interesting that other than Mark and myself no one has said anything about it, even them!
I can't blame him for wanting to do more but I think this is what Tom risks...
1) His loyal game fans don't buy into this new adventure. He has some that will continue to buy into everything he does. However its not enough to even attempt to get it more public.
2) He tries to milk his fan-base too much and it pisses them off enough that they stop buying into all these new cool ideas that he has, especially if they don't match to quality.
3) His loyal fan-base gets tired of all this and gets tired of the lack of focus on the CotG/LOW game. Lack of focus leads to less quality product which leads to less sales. They feel alienated by Tom's continual attempt to leave the wrestling game behind for these other adventures. They get tired of being 'beta testers' and having to pay for it.
All of this may be beta-testing but my thought is you don't make people buy beta-testing stuff. If he wanted to beta test the game he should have released a few cards (didn't have to be big names like SW, Thantos, etc) with a game chart and get opinions on what might work for the game. Right now you can do the same thing and more with the wrestling game, if they don't buy into the wrestling game, this one will not draw in a new crowd IMO. I think with how he set up the first installment of the superhero game he made it harder to expand it. If you look at my Batman boot I added a weapons chart portion. I think that and equipment is something that could have been added. I think people find the lack of decisions in this and CotG to be a turn off. Most of this game is out of your hands and you are just simulating stuff. This might have been an opportunity to change that and was missed.
At this point I don't see it being different enough to gain any new fans. I also don't see it developed enough for the regular fan base to get into it. I think someone is trying to propose changes in the game and I'd be interested in seeing what they propose to Tom. I know it has 20 years on the superhero version but even the 2087 set had more variety to it than this superhero version.
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Post by wildfire on Aug 18, 2010 16:16:29 GMT -4
Those guys never have said anything about Online either (maybe the occassion passing negative comment)... I think it falls under 'if you can't say anything nice...' department.
I agree 100% that it feels like a beta.. even the story. That's actually another good arguement for putting it in the promoter... get ideas, fill things out, then do a big public release.
And sure, people could make suggestions, but Tom has shown in the past he's not all that big on accepting changes to things he created.
I'm actually tempted to get it just to see if it's got enough raw materials to make something good out of it, but then I wonder why I'd do such a thing.
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