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Post by graymar on Jul 5, 2011 10:43:52 GMT -4
It'll be interesting to see if libraries having kindle stuff more often effect sales much... with actual books, it's more the 'rent or buy' kinda thing, but with electronic stuff... I get the impression most people consider it 'disposable'... why pay if you can get it for free? Seems like it could hurt the market more than is does for real books. I think this will especially be true with ebooks. With a physcial book...you have to go to the library, find the book & worry about return. With an ebook, you never have to physically go to the library, search the shelves or worry about return date.
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Post by wildfire on Jul 5, 2011 12:18:09 GMT -4
That article does much to back up my opinion that kindles are most popular with people who don't read much, actually.
TBH, I think it's long term success is tied to facebook, twitter, and all the other instant gratification social media out there.
I think at some point, there's gonna be some sorta scandal, where the information these sites gather and sell is gonna go over the line, and people are going to realize that these sites are businesses whose goal is to mine data to better peddle crap to the user, rather than happy fun time, and people are going to go away from them in droves.. which will hurt Kindle in the long run... I think there's ALOT of people out there like the people in the article, that are buying stuff on impulse seconds after reading a facebook recommendation from a buddy.
I also think after people do that for the 4th or 5th time and don't bother reading the book, they may do it less.
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Post by wildfire on Jul 5, 2011 12:19:32 GMT -4
I think this will especially be true with ebooks. With a physcial book...you have to go to the library, find the book & worry about return. With an ebook, you never have to physically go to the library, search the shelves or worry about return date. How does that work, anyway? Do the files self-destruct after a week or whatever the time frame is? I bet if you're inclined to that sorta thing libraries would be pretty easy to hack...
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Post by graymar on Jul 5, 2011 14:33:51 GMT -4
That article does much to back up my opinion that kindles are most popular with people who don't read much, actually. TBH, I think it's long term success is tied to facebook, twitter, and all the other instant gratification social media out there. I think at some point, there's gonna be some sorta scandal, where the information these sites gather and sell is gonna go over the line, and people are going to realize that these sites are businesses whose goal is to mine data to better peddle crap to the user, rather than happy fun time, and people are going to go away from them in droves.. which will hurt Kindle in the long run... I think there's ALOT of people out there like the people in the article, that are buying stuff on impulse seconds after reading a facebook recommendation from a buddy. I also think after people do that for the 4th or 5th time and don't bother reading the book, they may do it less. Do know if the popularity is with those that don't read much...I think it is allowing the opportunity for those that don't read much, to read more. I think the big readers are somewhat split as to advantages. I don't think the long term succes is related to facebook, et. al. Face book will be gone in a few years since parents are on it, it will no longer be 'cool' for kids, the real drivers. Electronic medium is here to stay. Look at the changes (for bad and good) that the internet has on news reporting especially newspapers. I can't argue tha the ease of ordering is driving a lot of impulse buying. However, as a long time reader, I have to say that it was very hard to visit a book seller and not buy anything. Therefore, some of my purchases were impulse buys for years. As for gathering data...that can be done in many electronic areas excluding Kindles (cell phones, for example). I think this COULD happen, but is more likely to happen in other forms of electronic media. Kindles are now being advertized at a slightly lower price...but with ads. My has no ads (at least, yet).
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Post by graymar on Jul 5, 2011 14:36:11 GMT -4
I think this will especially be true with ebooks. With a physcial book...you have to go to the library, find the book & worry about return. With an ebook, you never have to physically go to the library, search the shelves or worry about return date. How does that work, anyway? Do the files self-destruct after a week or whatever the time frame is? I bet if you're inclined to that sorta thing libraries would be pretty easy to hack... Don't know about the ebooks for sure...but when I get audio books on MP3...the 'self-destruct" at an appointed time without renewal. I don't know enough about the technology to now about ease of hacking. Not sure what purpose (other than mischief) it would allow.
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Post by wildfire on Jul 5, 2011 15:02:45 GMT -4
What I'm thinking is that if it's easy to, say, remove the self-destruction tag, people will quickly have the equivalent of Napster (or perhaps more appropriately Pirate Bay) for e-books... maybe that's already out there, I don't know. The easier it is to get something for free, the harder a sell it is, especially if the not free product doesn't add value. Buying a book as opposed to taking out of the library, for instance, has the value of owning it, and being able to read/refer to it again at your leisure. If the only value difference between a 'cracked' library kindle and a pay for kindle is your sense of being a good boy.. they may be in trouble... again, see the Music industry. As to the big meta topic of electronic media in general.. it's still Wildcat country... people are only making money on it through ad revenue, sold mostly to other internet media. Take Kongregate for example, 95% of the ads are for other flash games. Incestuous revenue like that is very fragile. Right now anyone decent programmer can come up with a game with 'premium features' to get a fair pile of college kids to throw their money away, but as more and more people try it, it's going to be less and less successful. Same with Facebook.. most of the ads are web-based companies. Pretend for a minute something bad happens, and facebook has to share less info, or perhaps it starts losing people because of Privacy concerns. There's going to be a big downward spiral. The thing about the internet is people don't like to pay for it.. they feel like it's 'entitled' to be free. All the fantasy sports sites force you to pay for news, now, unless your league is paying them to do the stats.... newspapers are starting to charge for stuff... it's a trend that's going to continue. The question will be how much tablet/iphone/etc users are willing to pay, and if that amount can create a viable business model... I'm not sure it can... and it could be ugly at some point. I agree 100% about Facebook in particular, but when I say 'facebook' I mean it and whatever hip trendy social media replaces it in a couple years.. I was sorta using it as a concept more the the company itself. Of course, you could just say i'm an old fart and totally wrong, and they may be true... guess we'll see
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Post by graymar on Jul 5, 2011 15:15:40 GMT -4
What I'm thinking is that if it's easy to, say, remove the self-destruction tag, people will quickly have the equivalent of Napster (or perhaps more appropriately Pirate Bay) for e-books... maybe that's already out there, I don't know. The easier it is to get something for free, the harder a sell it is, especially if the not free product doesn't add value. Buying a book as opposed to taking out of the library, for instance, has the value of owning it, and being able to read/refer to it again at your leisure. If the only value difference between a 'cracked' library kindle and a pay for kindle is your sense of being a good boy.. they may be in trouble... again, see the Music industry. As to the big meta topic of electronic media in general.. it's still Wildcat country... people are only making money on it through ad revenue, sold mostly to other internet media. Take Kongregate for example, 95% of the ads are for other flash games. Incestuous revenue like that is very fragile. Right now anyone decent programmer can come up with a game with 'premium features' to get a fair pile of college kids to throw their money away, but as more and more people try it, it's going to be less and less successful. Same with Facebook.. most of the ads are web-based companies. Pretend for a minute something bad happens, and facebook has to share less info, or perhaps it starts losing people because of Privacy concerns. There's going to be a big downward spiral. The thing about the internet is people don't like to pay for it.. they feel like it's 'entitled' to be free. All the fantasy sports sites force you to pay for news, now, unless your league is paying them to do the stats.... newspapers are starting to charge for stuff... it's a trend that's going to continue. The question will be how much tablet/iphone/etc users are willing to pay, and if that amount can create a viable business model... I'm not sure it can... and it could be ugly at some point. I agree 100% about Facebook in particular, but when I say 'facebook' I mean it and whatever hip trendy social media replaces it in a couple years.. I was sorta using it as a concept more the the company itself. Of course, you could just say i'm an old fart and totally wrong, and they may be true... guess we'll see As a side, but relevent, conversation, I now have Net Flix. With this, I have access (most immediate) to hundreds of films. as a result, I have purchased almost no movies since I signed up. You might say, it works like a library and ebooks in several ways.
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Post by wildfire on Jul 5, 2011 21:48:57 GMT -4
Yeah, I was hopin' Netflix worked like that, but the selection was really lousy, and it only sorta worked on the PS3.
I probably won't keep it past the free trial.
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Post by graymar on Jul 6, 2011 8:15:06 GMT -4
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Post by wildfire on Jul 6, 2011 13:34:31 GMT -4
Yeah, I heard a similar story on NPR the other day... the banks are looking for ways to make money after some of the new regulations Obama put in (his best accomplishment so far, IMO).
I feel like it's all very incestuous.. there's a limit to how much businesses are going to give each other for data, I'd think.
Guess we haven't hit that limit yet.
On Netflix, the way they do anime is terrible (no choice of dubbed or subtitles, just whatever they tossed up), which is a big minus for me.
No Harry Potter... no PBS stuff my wife was lookin' for. There's alot there, sure, but it's a weird mix.
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Post by graymar on Jul 6, 2011 14:24:01 GMT -4
On Netflix, the way they do anime is terrible (no choice of dubbed or subtitles, just whatever they tossed up), which is a big minus for me. No Harry Potter... no PBS stuff my wife was lookin' for. There's alot there, sure, but it's a weird mix. Well...to each his own! Found a lot of series that I have now caught up with such as Sons of Anarchy and Weeds.
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