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Post by lwffantrav on Jul 12, 2011 10:06:55 GMT -4
Unfortunately, if online is gone, I'd have to quit playing. I just don't have time to play the dice version if I'm working, married, have kids (one with some special needs)...just to time consuming. Exactly. I can't be breaking out cards and dice when I barely have 5 minutes a day to shower. I used to play S!O!S! all the time, but now with my daughter, I can't just leave them on the table and pick up where I left off if I have to go do something. Heck, I haven't started and completed a model in like forever, b/c who has the time. Our daughter does competitive gymnastics, so I have to take her this week. I'm there two hours, so it's a perfect situation to have my iPhone and be able to play some cards without the hassle of spreading out cards and rolling dice (another issue is that there is no where to actually do that and I don't want a bunch of parents looking at me like I'm a weirdo! ) Other places I can run a few cards from online is during our son's speech, at lunch during work, even during our family trip to Kings Island with us, my parents and brother and his family, I sat in the back of the van with my nephew and played some cards on my phone. Online goes away, in all honesty, so does my playing. I enjoy rolling the dice in its time, but I like to plan out the angles, doing stats, even more.
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Post by Mike M on Jul 12, 2011 11:02:18 GMT -4
I can understand why people are upset about this. The one thing that I thought that Tom should have mentioned is that there are costs associated with online that are not there for the printed version. Hosting the site (which is more expensive that just hosting a typical website due to the large amount of data and traffic) along with development costs (which can be a lot more than you think) might even offset the elimination of print costs.
I'm still shocked that there isn't an annual subscription fee anymore. Check out any online game out there. They all charge monthly or annual fees in addition to whatever you pay for the game itself. I think that if FG charged $5/month or $20/year for use of the online system and another $10-12 for each set, there wouldn't be an issue.
As far as not getting anything additional, you do get someplace secure to store your fed results, a way to play the game without having kids/spouses/pets "mess with it", and also have the ability to play "on the go". You also get "instant" access to the new releases without having to be in Jamestown, so that's a plus too.
I understand that there are requests for enhancements to Online (I have a number that I'd like to see myself). I also believe that the price change should have been communicated in a different manner. But even taking that into account, name another game that you can play for $19/year.
I think that Strat-o-Matic doesn't charge an annual fee but charges something like $40-50 just for the annual update disc. Plus, they require you to upgrade the program itself every 2-4 years (I forget because I haven't bought in a little while) which costs you another $15-30, depending on which package you have. At the end of the day, SOM's comp version winds up being more expensive than the card and dice version.
Please don't think that I'm saying this is a perfect situation. I'm just trying to point out that if this change was communicated better, this is still a pretty good deal.
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Post by wildfire on Jul 12, 2011 12:11:35 GMT -4
While you're correct that big time online MMOs do charge a monthly fee... you can't even think about comparing FG Online to World of Warcraft, City of Heroes, or the like. That'd be like comparing your computer you have now to a Commodore 64.
If Online was fully functional, without the variety of bugs in the stat tracker that never get fixed, and with the ability to play against other users, sure, it'd be worth it.
As it is, it's simply a pay version of Desktop, which you can get for free Online only does a couple things... it has the stat tracker, (which is pretty lousy, imo, but better than nothing I suppose), the pbp sim (which has been getting worse and worse over time) and the data already entered in for the sets you buy.
That is NOT worth a monthly fee... i'm sure they got rid of the monthly fee because no one renewed it when the time came.
As far as costs go, if there are any development costs, it's not money well spent, since there's been no development for years. Squire CHANGED some stuff (personally I liked BDS' interface better, but that's just me) but he didn't really create anything, and in fact more things broke than anything.
There's the coloring of the cards and the data entry, I guess, but the data entry has always been horrible (just look at the reported mistakes in the bug thread) and the coloring is pretty minor.
Server costs? It's one little fileserver,and probably a back up it can't be that much.
To me, Tom gave up on Online when he decided BDS wasn't' worth the hugely discounted rate he offered him do to his love of the game. At this point, it exists so he can say he has the game on line and to ring as much money as possible out of people willing to pay it.. which is sad, because I don't really play anymore for the same reasons you guys said, and I probably would if online ever worked right.
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Post by Neily on Jul 12, 2011 12:35:34 GMT -4
You dont play online right ? I dont blame you there.
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Post by wildfire on Jul 12, 2011 12:44:31 GMT -4
I haven't since the last 'update' where the pbp sim became pretty much unusable for tag team matches.
Even before that there were (and still are) lots of little, easy to upgrade things that are wrong that would make it SO much better if they just put in a little effort.
I used to have a list, but gave up.
I had big plans for online when it came out, but it just let me down.
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Post by MT on Jul 12, 2011 15:32:09 GMT -4
There's nothing online that couldn't be completely self-contained and used on a non-internet based system. I hate to even mention it, although I can here, but COTGonline is essentially still just the official version of the original COTG desktop program. The MMOs and MMORPGs that charge a monthly fee are not at all comparable to this system. I wouldn't even THINK about playing online until Filsinger Games dropped the monthly fee. Why pay for something, then pay to keep using it, when there's no feature there that couldn't be run on my own computer without the online aspect? This is just literally the digital version of what I own in print. I can pay once for the cards, have them to keep forever, and use a pen and paper or the "notepad" and a spreadsheet program on my computer to do exactly what I do on COTGonline.
I'm not sure why he couldn't have just sold the initial desktop start-up program, then the expansion sets as individual downloads. Sell me the basic "starter set" of the desktop program with game table, stat tracker, and either 2087 or 2119 for $50 then sell the expansions for $10-13a pop and I'd have no problem with that.
I like it for the convenience, but when it starts to get too expensive I'll just pass and go with the traditional format of dice, physical cards I can always access (without worrying about the FG server or my own internet connection being down), and a pen and paper to keep the stats myself.
Just speaking for myself, I'm cutting back on all non-essentials. I cut back on comic books to next to nothing because their charging 2.99-3.99 a month for 22 pages of paper. I cut out WWE PPVs entirely after the last price increase (quite a while ago). I'm not sure I can ever cut it out completely (I've been going about 24 years now after all), but when Filsinger Games product gets too expensive I'll surely have to cut back and pick and choose more carefully. Online gives me no "physical product" to have and keep and it's the same experience as the card and dice product so it's clearly the first to go when that comes to pass.
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Post by Mike M on Jul 12, 2011 15:37:42 GMT -4
I understand that people have different "spending priorities" and I'm not trying to say they are wrong. I was just trying to compare the Online cost to other products. SOM is very similar in that you can play on your own with cards and dice, but is much more expensive.
I also understand people's frustration with the bugs and enhancements that haven't happened yet. Color me an optimist, but I've very hopeful that some of those frustrating issues will be resolved in the future.
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Post by wildfire on Jul 12, 2011 15:59:11 GMT -4
Even using SoM as an example, Mike...
with Som's computer version, you get to print the cards, too.... not so with FG... sure, a creative user can work something out, but they're not supposed to do it.
That, combined with what Mark was saying (needing an internet connection) are two huge differences.
In fact, SOM has a 'lite' version that's alot more like FG's product that's only $19.95.
Now, if they upgraded a few things, that would be a different story... I personally feel a few minor changes would really improve the product.
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Post by maddog1981 on Jul 12, 2011 18:56:36 GMT -4
Mike M,
I didn't want to quote your whole post. Communication is the big problem here. No one was told the price was going up and Tom's ultimate answer was really lame. Instead of maybe understanding and being ready, you had people confused and pissed off about it. I still feel like it's a slap in the face and I'm really against buying either version at the moment because frankly, I'm a little pissed off. I'm pissed off that people got it for $13 and I'm pissed off that it still feels like someone just made some random decision to up the price. I've bought almost everything Online has offered and I've been there from almost the day it went Online. I've been a huge supporter of it and I feel like I'm getting screwed by the price.
And on top of that. It looks really stupid when those 2125 and 2126 game editions are sitting there are $19 when you can look right next to them and pick up Mega Tournament for $24 or one of the three parter sets for $36. It shows what a terrible value that current edition is compared to the older stuff.
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Post by Mike M on Jul 12, 2011 19:56:19 GMT -4
Even using SoM as an example, Mike... with Som's computer version, you get to print the cards, too.... not so with FG... sure, a creative user can work something out, but they're not supposed to do it. That, combined with what Mark was saying (needing an internet connection) are two huge differences. In fact, SOM has a 'lite' version that's alot more like FG's product that's only $19.95. Now, if they upgraded a few things, that would be a different story... I personally feel a few minor changes would really improve the product. Actually, you have to pay extra to get the card image option for SOM, and you can't print them out. You still have to buy them separately. And for the record, I'd like to see a number of improvements to Online, but I'm just trying to put the cost in context.
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Post by Mike M on Jul 12, 2011 20:01:45 GMT -4
Mike M, I didn't want to quote your whole post. Communication is the big problem here. No one was told the price was going up and Tom's ultimate answer was really lame. Instead of maybe understanding and being ready, you had people confused and pissed off about it. I still feel like it's a slap in the face and I'm really against buying either version at the moment because frankly, I'm a little pissed off. I'm pissed off that people got it for $13 and I'm pissed off that it still feels like someone just made some random decision to up the price. I've bought almost everything Online has offered and I've been there from almost the day it went Online. I've been a huge supporter of it and I feel like I'm getting screwed by the price. And on top of that. It looks really stupid when those 2125 and 2126 game editions are sitting there are $19 when you can look right next to them and pick up Mega Tournament for $24 or one of the three parter sets for $36. It shows what a terrible value that current edition is compared to the older stuff. Maddog, I understand your frustration. I tried to say that communication was a large issue here. That must not have been clear enough. Bottom line, Tom admitted that it was a mistake, and he's trying to make it up to people by giving the 2 free cards away. That may not be enough for some people, but it is rare that a company voluntarily admits a mistake that quickly and tries to do something about it. Again, I think that there may be some "value" that missed in all of this, but it is your perception and I understand why you are frustrated. It is my sincere belief that FG is working to correct these issues and will make things better for customers.
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Post by maddog1981 on Jul 12, 2011 20:04:13 GMT -4
I was actually agreeing with you on the communication problem. I think had they been more forthcoming about it, they would've avoided this whole situation.
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Post by Dustin on Jul 12, 2011 20:52:26 GMT -4
I've been reading here.
Anyway, we've been told Online is being worked on. Really? How long will this take? Tom, as much as I appreciate him, sounds like a telemarketer everytime he replies to an issue. The ONLY plus to Online is that you get it instantly and the coloring of old sets. Also, a huge plus the next LEGENDS set will come out in both.
Oh well, maybe next year the bandage will be the Dark Menace II card.
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Post by Mike M on Jul 14, 2011 10:10:51 GMT -4
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Post by wildfire on Jul 14, 2011 10:55:55 GMT -4
Dustin posted that before BDS was announced... I'm sure everyone will give him every chance to fix stuff
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