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Post by Boomslang on Dec 13, 2011 14:24:44 GMT -4
My head just exploded! This is actually a common post-coital occurence among the Ani-Men. That's why they haven't taken over the galaxy. To paraphrase Fiddler on the Roof: a bird may love a fish...and their child will wrestle in the GWF.
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Post by wildfire on Dec 13, 2011 14:40:33 GMT -4
My head just exploded! To paraphrase Fiddler on the Roof: a bird may love a fish...and their child will wrestle in the GWF. So THAT'S where Plethador came from!
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Post by whiplash on Dec 13, 2011 14:45:29 GMT -4
I agree with Trav about the realms and such... the whole thing with that and the dimension hopping has been very 60s comic book-y... the story changes every time it needs to in order to accomodate writing that ignored it. I was sorta hoping this Black Death story might tie all that stuff up, but that would require the GWF story to use/overlap/expand on aCe, and I'm pretty sure that's not gonna happen. You kinda hit the nail on the head here while missing the more important reasoning. At the time, Tom needed a storyline to explain a way to rid the GWF of tons of guys and get his game ready for a re-launch. The "closing of the portals" storyline was more of an extreme business decision than a storyline. In addition to preparing a company wide re-launch, he handed aCe off to Osk. As time goes on popular races like ones from Byrmstone are bound to find their way back to the main fed. Guys like Paganax are going to show up in the GWF because guys like Paganax sell games. Amazing Mann helped aCe sell games. It would be silly to sacrifice great characters because of some storyline that had more to do with business than story anyways. aCe is now considered Alt Universe, which clouds things for the established fan but makes jumping on and following along much easier for the new player. It's just one of those things where Tom wrote something 6 years ago and you have to put the pieces together in your head. Like any law exceptions are made. Deals get done behind the scenes. Look at the NBA right now. Maybe the GWF is similar in the 2020's. Paganax is like Chris Paul just taller and red.
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Post by wildfire on Dec 13, 2011 15:22:06 GMT -4
Perhaps, but it's a slippery slope.. at what point does screwing with the back story start alienating more people than the beloved characters bring in?
Obviously, only Tom knows the sales figures, but from ancedotal evidence, Paganax coming to the GWF crossed that line... I think alot of people that loved aCe felt like that (and the following sets) was a real turn off... Tom basically took Osk's stuff and threw it away, when alot of people thought it was really good (sI think personally it was better than Tom's stuff, but I digress).
I bet if you went and looked at the amount of discussion about the current stuff, it's gone down a huge amount over the last 5 sets. Perhaps not sales (I'm sure getting people to re-buy everything in color was a bump, and the sets now cost nearly twice as much), but definitely in 'buzz' and perhaps in # of sets sold.
At some point, re-treading Legends will do the same thing... perhaps the next one will be that point, or perhaps Tom will move on before that happens... we'll see.
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Post by dandruff 4 on Dec 13, 2011 15:46:02 GMT -4
Perhaps, but it's a slippery slope.. at what point does screwing with the back story start alienating more people than the beloved characters bring in? I guess when those people outgrow their own imaginations, patience, or both. aka get old.
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Post by wildfire on Dec 13, 2011 16:12:44 GMT -4
I don't think getting old has anything to do with it... it's a common problem Marvel and DC deal with all the time...
they have big storylines that 'change everything you know about x'.. the hype generates sales, but sometimes (especially if the story doesn't live up to the hype) they'll be more negatives about the changes than postives about the new direction.
Inevitably, even with really good new directions, they bring things back to the 'status quo', but often at the expense of a bunch of fans... every story you invalidate is someone's favorite, and might just be the thing that prompts them to move on.
The Spidey Clone saga is a good example of this, as is the 'Iron Boy' era of Iron Man.
How does this relate to FG? Well, lots of people really liked aCe, and I'm sure some really liked the Cosmic Battle story. If Black Death builds on those in an interesting, logical way, great. If Black Death ignores them, contradicts them, or pokes fun at them, not so great.
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Post by twice on Dec 13, 2011 16:34:59 GMT -4
I don't know what Black Death would have to do with aCe. That chapter was closed long ago when New Beginnings started. Tom didn't write aCe, didn't play it and probably never read it, same as CPC/POW and GWFZ. In a new starting point when those things are clearly marked as "not official" expecting them to tie into a totally new story years later written by Tom is asking a lot.
If aCe is ever built on, it would be by Kris. Not Tom. Anyone jumping on AC (after color) would have clue about aCe nor should they when the focus is on the future. If LWPD or someone does a massive GWF files again or adds to it, I think that is the proper and best place for full-on character backstory. Not new handbooks.
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Post by wildfire on Dec 13, 2011 16:42:54 GMT -4
That would be fine if the products were fan-made, but they're not.. there are GWFZ, ACE, and POW sets for sale on the FG web site. They are all Tom's characters, he has used several of them in the GWF.
If someone were to post the stats for those sets on the internet, it's Tom that would be upset, not the writers (though perhaps they would, too)
To ignore them because someone else wrote the stories is silly, that's not how a shared universe works. Being that he's a comic book fan, I'd assume Tom knows that and wouldn't completely ignore stuff simply because he contracted out the writing, but perhaps I'm giving him too much credit.
By all the previews, Black Death sounds ALOT like the Cosmic Battle, only existing characters are being subverted, instead of new characters being added to the top of the card. If they don't tie in, and Tom is simple recycling after a few years, then I'll be disappointed, even if it is a wrestling staple to do so.
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Post by Boomslang on Dec 13, 2011 17:09:27 GMT -4
Not to derail the derailment with an on-topic post, but I received my Chikara cards today, and in with them was a Black Death 2127 card for Coven Black, who I don't think has been announced yet.
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Post by dandruff 4 on Dec 13, 2011 18:48:26 GMT -4
That would be fine if the products were fan-made, but they're not.. there are GWFZ, ACE, and POW sets for sale on the FG web site. They are all Tom's characters, he has used several of them in the GWF. If someone were to post the stats for those sets on the internet, it's Tom that would be upset, not the writers (though perhaps they would, too) To ignore them because someone else wrote the stories is silly, that's not how a shared universe works. Being that he's a comic book fan, I'd assume Tom knows that and wouldn't completely ignore stuff simply because he contracted out the writing, but perhaps I'm giving him too much credit. By all the previews, Black Death sounds ALOT like the Cosmic Battle, only existing characters are being subverted, instead of new characters being added to the top of the card. If they don't tie in, and Tom is simple recycling after a few years, then I'll be disappointed, even if it is a wrestling staple to do so. Forget the website. It's a mess. Just one more thing on a list of things to be improved and revamped now that the company is flourishing thanks to the move to color, partnership with Chikara and recent success of an already revamped Online system. GWF and LOW are the bread and butter. Nothing else has ever been designed to go on forever or ever coincide with the future of the GWF. Any misinterpretations of that are just that.
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Post by dandruff head on Dec 13, 2011 18:49:52 GMT -4
Not to derail the derailment with an on-topic post, but I received my Chikara cards today, and in with them was a Black Death 2127 card for Coven Black, who I don't think has been announced yet. Looks way different! Out with Twighlight in with Lost Boys!
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Post by Boomslang on Dec 13, 2011 20:59:31 GMT -4
Not to derail the derailment with an on-topic post, but I received my Chikara cards today, and in with them was a Black Death 2127 card for Coven Black, who I don't think has been announced yet. Looks way different! Out with Twighlight in with Lost Boys! I posted elsewhere, but not here, that the art is a HUGE improvement. I would actually use this character now, based solely on the new art; whereas I would have chosen not to use him based solely on his previous art.
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Post by tax on Dec 13, 2011 21:02:00 GMT -4
I figured he was a shoo-in for Black Death.
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Post by maddog1981 on Dec 13, 2011 22:37:33 GMT -4
Looks way different! Out with Twighlight in with Lost Boys! I posted elsewhere, but not here, that the art is a HUGE improvement. I would actually use this character now, based solely on the new art; whereas I would have chosen not to use him based solely on his previous art. Don't worry. He sucked balls as a wrestler with the last card. Hopefully his new card can at least beat jobbers.
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Post by todd on Dec 13, 2011 22:48:48 GMT -4
I posted elsewhere, but not here, that the art is a HUGE improvement. I would actually use this character now, based solely on the new art; whereas I would have chosen not to use him based solely on his previous art. Don't worry. He sucked balls as a wrestler with the last card. Hopefully his new card can at least beat jobbers. That's the truth he holds the record for most consecutive losses in all my filsinger feds at 0-15. Buddy Rose is number two at 0-13 followed by The Boogie Woogie Man 0-11
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