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Post by todd on Jan 18, 2012 0:11:50 GMT -4
Just got Wargames 2093 in the mail today and was looking through the cards. Right or wrong Alpha Force is the most powerful character up to this point ?
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Post by MT on Jan 18, 2012 10:39:03 GMT -4
Arguably, yes. He had the best finisher to that point, for sure. Overall, I'd say he was statistically meant to be the equal of Chaos.
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Post by Boomslang on Jan 18, 2012 11:20:05 GMT -4
Wasn't he the first card to have all A's for his Chart Ratings, or am I misremembering?
Two +5 Finishers*, a good PIN, few down's...yeah, he was a beast. A beast with a glowing hand.
* Granted, there is a roll-chance to miss the Finishers, but there is never a chance of the move backfiring on Alpha, so they are still huge. The one question I remember having was whether to re-roll on Level 3 Offense or Level 2 Offense if the opponent escapes the hold. I seem to recall the original card saying one thing, and the Snelly remix saying the other.
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Post by MT on Jan 18, 2012 11:32:23 GMT -4
It was originally a re-roll on level three, but it was changed for the special edition card to re-roll on level 2. That was an improvement, as I can recall a number of times where he'd miss, roll the move again, miss, and it would just go on and on several times until he either hit or rolled something else.
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Post by executioner on Jan 18, 2012 12:58:37 GMT -4
Alpha Force was very strong. He could keep up with any top guy. I always envisioned him being sort of like Kerry Von Erich while in WCCW.
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Post by Peter F on Jan 18, 2012 13:26:08 GMT -4
It was originally a re-roll on level three, but it was changed for the special edition card to re-roll on level 2. That was an improvement, as I can recall a number of times where he'd miss, roll the move again, miss, and it would just go on and on several times until he either hit or rolled something else. Also, his Deathjump went from an A to a B on the SE card. Technically Chaos was the first "straight-A" guy but he went to straight-Bs if the Alpha Stone weakened, so you could say 2093 Alpha was the first. You have to credit Tom for realizing that he couldn't run Star Warrior/Thantos as the top feud forever and realizing that he had to rotate in new top guys just as in real-life wrestling. I don't think a lot of other potential game-writers would have realized that at the time. Chaos was a success but Alpha Force clearly wasn't. I actually liked the guy a lot myself and he was a tremendous success in my fed, but the artwork was a struggle (Tom didn't like the 2093 art) and he was stuck in a game edition that's widely considered one of the more disappointing ones. I hesitate to say "worst" because it had some real cool stuff in it, but it also had some truly awful artwork and the Alpha Stone storyline was already filling with plot holes even years before we got to the cheapest retcon in COTG history.
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Post by Mike M on Jan 18, 2012 13:44:37 GMT -4
Chaos was a success but Alpha Force clearly wasn't. I actually liked the guy a lot myself and he was a tremendous success in my fed, but the artwork was a struggle (Tom didn't like the 2093 art) and he was stuck in a game edition that's widely considered one of the more disappointing ones. I hesitate to say "worst" because it had some real cool stuff in it, but it also had some truly awful artwork and the Alpha Stone storyline was already filling with plot holes even years before we got to the cheapest retcon in COTG history. I liked Alpha at the time, but 2093 was Chuck's last edition as a full-time artist, and you could see that his heart just wasn't into it any more at that point. Alpha's art was probably the most disappointing to me, simply because of how awesome his card was and where he fit in the plot. It wasn't terrible, but I always felt the art should have been better. The card with Snelly's art actually was more disappointing, since the art still wasn't great and the card was downgraded (not to mention only a year old at that point- I think that no one had a card that lasted less than 3 years before that).
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Post by Boomslang on Jan 18, 2012 14:05:13 GMT -4
I actually liked his 2093 art. It was superior to his Snelly card, which seemed oddly distorted to me. It was leaps and bounds ahead of his....what? 2099 card? Where he looked like a monkey?
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Post by MT on Jan 18, 2012 15:41:03 GMT -4
Alpha Force was the repeat victim of bad artwork destroying the character. This is why the synthesis of drawing/stats/story is so important. A character cannot really be a popular success without all three.
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Post by kingwiththeax on Jan 18, 2012 18:50:08 GMT -4
My old GWF was always heel-dominated. Thantos was the man, held the big belt most of the time I ran GWF. I think Alpha Force did hold it at one time, but it was a short run. Star Warrior never did much, held the secondary title for awhile, and i think 1/2 of the tag championships at one time too with Alpha Force. Always had a lot more success with Chaos than Alpha Force for some reason.
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Post by todd on Jan 18, 2012 21:48:23 GMT -4
as I can recall a number of times where he'd miss, roll the move again, miss, and it would just go on and on several times until he either hit or rolled something else. I'm still a few sets behind 2093 but that's one thing I was worried about. I dont mind the Alpha Force art besides the fact his face reminds me of Robert Deniro a little bit. overall I think the art work is pretty poor especially Astro Turk and U.S Patriot. I think Quasar is by far the best drawing in the set
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Post by tax on Jan 19, 2012 13:24:04 GMT -4
2093 had 3 decent drawings (Quasar, Cannibal, Chopper) and the rest were pretty terrible. It's easy to see why this was Carter's last run.
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Post by Peter F on Jan 19, 2012 14:51:03 GMT -4
I never got the complaints over the Turk and Bart artwork. They're goofball job guys, it would almost seem like a waste to use a killer drawing for them. I think the Turk drawing in particular is actually quite good for what it's supposed to depict.
Quasar and Chopper Mattock looked great, and Cannibal and Vanity looked quite good as well. I also really like the Collector drawing--as Tom pointed out in his book, Chuck was the best of all COTG artists at depicting other types of characters besides "tough guys." Honestly, I don't think any non-wrestler type drawing has ever looked as good as Carter's Reynard B. Guile.
The whole set really is sunk by Sectarian and U.S. Patriot. Sectarian was a lost cause but Patriot was able to weather his dud artwork, I think because his undercard feud with Stud City was a real fun one, with a strong story of Sweet Thing finally "seeing the light" being compelling enough for Patriot to sort of tread water before getting his real upgrade in 2097.
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Post by Boomslang on Jan 19, 2012 17:10:45 GMT -4
I pretty much liked all the 2093 artwork. Sectarian was an exception, but that's because he was Sectarian. He was one of the first characters I simply refused to use, and his roster spot was taken by a bootleg (though it's been so long, I forget who, now, or what role he filled).
Turk and Bart were perfect for what they were. I wasn't a huge fan of Chopper Mattock's art, but he fit the theme and purpose very well. Cannibal and the Collector were awesome, as was Quasar. I already said that I rather liked Alpha Force's art--much better than his new card in 2094--and I also thought the Patriot was a vast improvement over his Adam Blast artwork. Vanity was also a big improvement; I just wish his card had been stronger, because I would have really liked pushing him as an IP-level heel.
Overall, I preferred Carter's work on 2093 than Snelly's work on 2094 and 2095. Not that Snelly wasn't awesome; it was just a matter of personal preference. Maybe I was so used to the more "cartoony" style of Carter that any change was hard to fathom. Similarly, maybe this is just nostalgia, but Carter's art remains my favorite across the board.
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Post by todd on Jan 19, 2012 21:28:00 GMT -4
I know Astro Turk is supposed to be a jobber but to me he looks like a midget wearing big people clothing. The only other art I like in this set besides Quasar is Chopper Mattock. I'm a little confused about Adam Blast/ U.S Patriot. If Adam Blast becomes U.S Patriot in 2093 why does it say in the description in the online store this happens in Revolution 2097? Did someone make a mistake or am I missing something ?
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