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Post by lowtrav on Dec 28, 2012 0:58:02 GMT -4
I know Cory knows this, but in case Chad ( or others see this), this "nitpicking" is nitpicking just to nitpick, more for conversation. This is a great set
I'm looking forward wholl be the first to challenge Tracy Smothers to a dance off
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Post by MT on Dec 28, 2012 9:08:32 GMT -4
It's simply a discussion. We can still have those without everyone having to agree on all points. When it comes to such objective things as a "point of agility" here or a "defensive tag" there, no one is going to ever be in total agreement. I can tell you without hesitation that the guys making the cards don't even always agree with each other on all of those things. When someone has spent this many years putting together cards and having their name on the credits, they know the deal.
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Post by lowtrav on Dec 28, 2012 9:22:03 GMT -4
One more thing, picking up on what Mark said. If he said Albert/A Train/Bernard, whatever's time was from Japan, then I kinda disagree. I think they probably should have based him on his American version first and had the Japanese stats as official since more know him from his American days (although his bigger success was Japan). BTW, I hate every name he's had. Any suggestions on what to use? I'm sure he'll headline all of my popcorn matches First, I'd have given Wolfie -2 ag, as well. But that's just my opinion. On Bernard, I have no inside knowledge of the thought process, but I think that since they used the name he wrestled as in Japan that they went ahead and made the stats match the name. At least they didn't make the "Tensai" card his main card and kept those stats as the online exclusive (although it would have been nice to have a different drawing for that "card" instead of just alternate stats with the same art). If you don't like any of the names, just go with the worst version and call him "Hip Hop Hippo". Alternately, just call him Matt Bloom. Definitely an idea...have him come in during his first appearance and "shoot", saying he's done with the ridiculous names
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Post by lowtrav on Dec 28, 2012 9:53:12 GMT -4
I'm trying to think of the other "controversial" ones over thr year
Brody's down -3 on the Level 2 was the biggest
Didnt Orton Jr's agility raise some stink as well?
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Post by tax on Dec 28, 2012 10:11:25 GMT -4
It was Orton's power I believe.....compared to Mil having a -1. Yeah, I remember that one well.
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Post by MT on Dec 28, 2012 10:48:41 GMT -4
Yeah, Orton's power was a funny one. It showed that the hardcore fans won't let any stat on any wrestler go unnoticed. Another one that was actually kind of an early point of contention that got revised with the reprint of series one was the level 2 defense of King Kong Bundy.
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Post by lowtrav on Dec 28, 2012 11:46:36 GMT -4
can't forget Race and Mascaras' double moves
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Post by weirdjerod on Dec 28, 2012 11:51:18 GMT -4
Seems like there was an issue with Valentine too. His PIN or # of down-3's or something...
And absolutely agreed that the debate (at least on this board for sure, lol) is mostly just fun and "nitpicky" stuff. And having worked closely on cards with some of the people here, it's always fun to have group discussions on what "I would have" or "would not have" done.
Anyways, back to bootlegging, lol, have to get a few done for requests before the end of the week...
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Post by MT on Dec 28, 2012 21:26:44 GMT -4
can't forget Race and Mascaras' double moves We can't really "blame" the card writers for those two. They fall into the category of printer's errors. Race's got fixed in the second print. With Valentine the original Legends card was the same as his GWF card with 1 "down-3" on level 2 D and a PIN 7(4). On the reprint it changed to two "down-3" and a PIN 6(3), which is more reasonable. I used to have some LONG matches with Valentine because he couldn't put a guy away, but he wouldn't go down either.
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Post by tyguy on Dec 28, 2012 22:44:04 GMT -4
I think the double moves is a proofreading mistake not a printing mistake. They just print what is given to them.
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Post by lowtrav on Dec 29, 2012 1:16:17 GMT -4
Bernard is based on his most successful period of his career, which is when he was a tag team wrestler in Japan teaming with Karl "Machine Gun" Anderson. It makes sense for his card to have the defensive tag options. Warlord may have been a part of a tag team for a lot of years, but if you watch their matches the Powers Of Pain didn't really do a great job of tagging out when/if they went on defense. They tended to either dominate on offense or just get beat. I don't think the stats are trending upward necessarily. If you look at the first several editions of Legends, these are comparable. Virgil has level 3 potency move on his level 1 offense and it doesn't make a bit of difference. Unless a wrestler has two "REVERSAL-1" options on level 2 offense you're not going to spend much time rolling on level 1 anyway, so it's usually not a difference maker. I tend to think some of the cards in the past few editions were slightly weaker than they should have been (a recent example is Fit Finlay), as a matter of fact, and these seem back in line with what I would expect. Interesting about the last few sets being weaker... Am looking through my stuff now, and a good point... And it's not that I don't think Bernard doesn't' deserve a decent defensive tag set up, I still contend that 5 might be a bit strong (though at the same time, I would somewhat wonder about the -2 power, seems Bernard was always billed a bit more "monster-ish" than that)... And while I, again, agree that a - 3 on L1O is NOT a formula for guaranteed success (nods at poor Virgil), i just found it a bit odd that so many in one set would have it. Now, I will also definitely reiterate that, IMO, this is one of the most well rounded sets we have had for quite some time. And while I could nitpick til the cows come home, in general, this will also be one of the sets I use the most characters out of right from the get-go. (Sorry, Mikey, you are the one guy that will likely get little to no play, except as occasional fill in down in the minors, lol). All in all, solid B+A- for me. (The, IMO, unnecessary Claudio card and the Whipwreck card, brought it down from a solid A). Its funny how different people look at cards. I don't think I've ever paid attention to see if they had a - 3 move on their L1O. What I do, the first thing, is count how many - 3 moves or finishers they do have.
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Post by lowtrav on Dec 29, 2012 16:43:07 GMT -4
Just ran a tournament with the new guys:
Opening Round Claudio Castagnolia pinned Mikey Whipwreck following the NEUTRALIZER (513) Warlord pinned Wolfie D with a running power slam (1443) Prince Albert pinned JC Ice after the BERNARD DRIVER (313) Tracy Smothers pinned Jim Powers with a moonsault bodyblock (922) Quarterfinals Tommy Rich beat Claudio Castagnoli by DQ (206) Tracy Smothers beat Blackjack Mulligan by DQ (105) Semifinals Tommy Rich pinned Warlord following a fistdrop (528) Prince Albert beat Tracy Smothers by countout (635) Finals Tommy Rich pinned Prince Albert with the THESZ PRESS (751)
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