TNA Bound For Glory 2014: So what are the odds this happens?

[Deleted]

POSTER;
DATE: 10/12
CONFIRMED MATCHES:

RUMORED MATCHES:
Full Metal Mayhem for the TNA World Tag Team Championship: The Wolves of Davey Richards and Eddie Edwards vs. Team 3D of Bully Ray and Devon vs. Matt and Jeff Hardy
James Storm and The Great Sanada vs. The Great MUTA and TAJIRI
Ethan Carter III vs. Rhino

This is an interesting show to me because if they make it to 10/12, they're running Korakuen Hall, a 2,100 seat building with Wrestle-1, a company that put 700 people (most of whom were comped) into Korakuen Hall just a few weeks ago. Who thought this was a good idea? I mean I guess it beats a Sumo Hall with only 1,000 or 2,000 people in it, but still.

[maddog1981]

I think the show will happen but there's a good chance it's the last show.

[swarm]

Fill me in. Ricky you said this is a 3rd rate Japanese fed who never draws so what is the point of TNA doing this? Seems like sending the whole roster to Japan would be pricey for a company who just lost their TV contract.

[maddog1981]

I think Ring of Honor lost their asses when they went over for 2 shows in 2006 or 2007. Even if TNA drew a decent house they would lose a ton of money on this. Drawing better than Wrestle-1 is easy though.

[Deleted]

Aug 6, 2014 11:49:15 GMT -4 swarm said:

Fill me in. Ricky you said this is a 3rd rate Japanese fed who never draws so what is the point of TNA doing this? Seems like sending the whole roster to Japan would be pricey for a company who just lost their TV contract.

Yeah, they're co-promoting with Wrestle-1 which is by my estimation, the #4 or #5 promotion in Japan. They co-promoted with them back in March for a Sumo Hall PPV that aired in July as one of those One Night Only shows, but that show drew like ass and I honestly have not a clue what would make them do this. Wrestle-1 can't fill Korakuen on their own and TNA aren't a draw in Japan (or anywhere, but we'll focus solely on Japan) so when you put it all together it just doesn't make any sense. It's going to be super expensive for them to bring the talent over unless they're making the talent cover their own travel which wouldn't shock me since it's TNA.

It doesn't help TNA that their biggest star as far as Japan is concerned, Kurt Angle, might not be healthy in time for the show plus if he is, his contract will have already expired. This really seems like it's too little, too late.

Aug 6, 2014 12:07:33 GMT -4 maddog1981 said:

I think Ring of Honor lost their asses when they went over for 2 shows in 2006 or 2007. Even if TNA drew a decent house they would lose a ton of money on this. Drawing better than Wrestle-1 is easy though.

ROH lost a bit of money on those NOAH shows in 07/08, I do recall hearing that but the difference is that ROH sold out the Differ Ariake paid. TNA are co-promoting with a distant #4 at best who struggles to put 700 people in Korakuen with comped tickets. I have no idea who told Dixie this was a good idea.

[maddog1981]

Wrestle-1 is kind of the default #4. Every other promotion around their size are niche things.

That's really my point. RoH had a much lower budget and I read that it hurt them when some of the financial stuff got out a couple of years later. So how can TNA even hope to make any sort of money? This really is a stupid business move. There are several countries they could draw better.

[Deleted]

Yeah, but Dragon Gate still puts more people in Kobe World Hall for their big show than Wrestle-1 has ever drawn, that's why I said you could argue it's #5.

I really don't get why this isn't in England or Canada. One of those two places would yield much better results than comping a ton of people for little Korakuen Hall (as much as I love that building) in Tokyo.

[maddog1981]

I figured you were arguing NOAH might be lower now.

[Deleted]

Aug 6, 2014 16:51:26 GMT -4 maddog1981 said:

I figured you were arguing NOAH might be lower now.

Nah, they actually do respectable numbers for a lot of their shows. Well, at least they were during KENTA's title reign. I know they packed a decent number of people into Ariake Coliseum for him vs. Nagata last year and they consistently do well at Korakuen which is pretty much their #2 building. I figure it breaks down like this. Some of the ones after DG can be swapped around, pretty much all of 'em can actually. DDT runs Budokan and/or Ryogoku once a year and usually does okay, so now that I think about it you could argue that they're higher than NOAH and Wrestle-1. Maybe All Japan, too. It's a real sad state of affairs over there for any promotion not called New Japan.

1.) New Japan (35,000 paid for the Dome...nobody outside of WWE is touching that, let alone beating it)
2.) Dragon Gate (the Kobe World Hall attendance is usually the biggest non-NJ attendance every year)
3.) NOAH (Ariake Coliseum sell outs in the past year)
4.) All Japan (Split from Shiraishi has brought things up a bit)
5.) Wrestle-1 (They run big buildings but can't sell them out)
6.) DDT (They draw well enough to be #3 if you want to be funny about it)
7.) Big Japan
8.) Zero-ONE

[maddog1981]

I would consider putting DDT over Wrestle-1. Big Japan sometimes does better if their brand of violence is in.

[Deleted]

Like I said, DDT draws well enough to be considered #3 if you want to be funny about it. BJW is in a weird spot right now where they're trying to be like CZW and balance the deathmatch stuff with actual wrestling and their attendances aren't the best.

[pikemojo]

Aug 7, 2014 12:42:59 GMT -4 @thedarknight said:

Like I said, DDT draws well enough to be considered #3 if you want to be funny about it. BJW is in a weird spot right now where they're trying to be like CZW and balance the deathmatch stuff with actual wrestling and their attendances aren't the best.

For someone who knows very little about Japanese wrestling, want to explain the "if you want to be funny about it."

[Deleted]

Aug 7, 2014 16:16:10 GMT -4 pikemojo said:

Aug 7, 2014 12:42:59 GMT -4 @thedarknight said:

Like I said, DDT draws well enough to be considered #3 if you want to be funny about it. BJW is in a weird spot right now where they're trying to be like CZW and balance the deathmatch stuff with actual wrestling and their attendances aren't the best.

For someone who knows very little about Japanese wrestling, want to explain the "if you want to be funny about it."

People tend to think of promotions like DDT, Dragon Gate and such as being "lower" than the established feds like NOAH and All Japan when if you compare the attendances, DDT and Dragon Gate actually do better than both of them. So, if you want to get right down to it, an argument can be made that DDT and Dragon Gate are actually higher in the pecking order than NOAH and All Japan but most fans will ignore that because they refuse to admit that the two promotions smart fans have put on a pedestal for decades are now in the toilet. A few years ago, you would be insane to argue DDT and Dragon Gate over them but now when Dragon Gate draws a higher number for the Kobe show in July than NOAH or AJ will draw all year, you can be funny about it and argue that Dragon Gate and DDT > NOAH and All Japan.

For example, for the Dragon Gate show on 7/20, they drew 9,650 fans which is pretty much as high as it's going to get anywhere that's not WWE, New Japan, CMLL or on some nights, AAA.

DDT for two nights at the Sumo Hall last year, drew 8,500 and 9,000 respectively. Much like with DG, that's as high as it's going to get outside of the big four.

NOAH's biggest attendance this year was 6,200 fans. All Japan's biggest attendance this year was 2,483 and both numbers are super inflated (especially the All Japan attendance) with comped tickets. Neither promotion sells out shows as much as DG or DDT so the argument can be made that DG and DDT are above both of them.

[maddog1981]

Yeah, Dragon Gate has probably been the #2 fed in Japan for about 4 years.

[maddog1981]

All Japan I think is lucky to get 1200 paid tickets to a show these days. I know they do some super small places now and it's never a given that they'll sell the building out. I don't even know how NOAH gets people to pay for the product. They have some absolute shit working the undercards.