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Post by executioner on Apr 21, 2011 13:45:30 GMT -4
$30 is about as much as I would be willing to pay for this set. It would be tragic IMO for a Chikara annual set to be the end of LOTF. LOTF is a truely dynamic set. Great selection of wrestlers and top shelf quality. Hands down the best product to come out of FG in some time--period. I like the idea of an "annual" update, but not at the expese of other talented indy workers that are out there that might sign, but do not fit the Chikara style.
I was unaware that Knap vanished. I do hope he comes back. He was/is the heart and soul of indy boots to me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2011 14:09:02 GMT -4
Besides, if Knapik is gone (which the fact that Rob is doing stats seems to indicate) there may be no more LOTF anyway. I saw Knap added White Lion Games as his current employer on Facebook so maybe he's done with FG?
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Post by lwffantrav on Apr 21, 2011 14:11:19 GMT -4
I was unaware that Knap vanished. I do hope he comes back. He was/is the heart and soul of indy boots to me. You're right. That would be tragic because he had an actual love for the product
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Post by antimony on Apr 21, 2011 14:46:31 GMT -4
At the risk of being smitten, smited, smote or whatever, I think $30 seems awfully low for this project.
A set of ten B&W cards was going for what? $12 or $14? This is two and a half times the size, in full color, presumably on the high gloss card stock, with a box, charts, etc. I would not be at all surprised if that brings the price up to $40. Or more. Maybe there'll be a limited time discount for the show and a while thereafter, but once the initial push subsides, it will probably settle in the $45 to $55 range.
Remember that this set will have appeal to Chikara fans outside the scope of the game. I would be stunned if the majority of the sets sold at the show ever got used for the game, and instead were being bought by Chikara fans who want a couple dozen quasi-collectible pieces of artwork for their hobby. Buy the well-drawn and brightly-colored cards, get as many guys to sign them as possible, and then frame them or display them, but they will probably never even get turned over.
Chikara fans like wide variety and high action. I doubt they'd be satisfied with a dumbed down set of 15 moves on some paper cards; not when they probably have more than 24 Chikara CAC's on Fire Pro or Smackdown vs. Raw, with dozens of moves and golds programmed in and a customizable intelligence. This has always been the issue with trying to expand CotG or LoW beyond the cadre of core supporters who have been trained to tolerate limited move sets. Pushing it at a new audience puts it into direct competition with other genres of games which graphically, stylistically, and in terms of detail/flexibility kick its ass.
In terms of putting out a "Dark Menace" product that might produce a modest spike in revenue, this is a good idea, and positioning it as collector memorabilia will encourage a higher price point and draw in new sales more readily than "lookit this cool game with two dice." In terms of expanding the game, it's probably not going to have a lot of traction. Even if you find a new player who just dropped forty bucks on a shiny, glossy, full color set of his favorite Chikara stars, his motivation to expand that into the purchase of a poorly drawn, black and white card of Koko B Ware would be...what exactly?
But then again, what do I know? I won't even be buying the thing.
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Post by wildfire on Apr 21, 2011 15:24:17 GMT -4
Either TM or Swarm (possibly both) posted on the Chikara boards that the set would be around $30... so if it's much higher they're gonna get some backlash.
I think it's not totally out there, though. The GWF color set was initially $49 for what, 36 cards? 38? I'm sure they weren't selling that at a loss.
I don't know for sure Knap is gone for good, just that Rob is talking about doing the stats on his board... I thought Mark was gone for good, and he came back (albeit probably briefly) after 6 months of not logging in.
I have to disagree with Antimony, though. There's room for all sorts of games in varying complexity in any sport.... APBA Baseball, for instance, is worlds simpler that Strat-O-Matic, but both have their fans. I think the game is great for what it is... a means to run a fed and be creative. It's not a wrestling simulator, certainly... but as long as the bill it properly, they'll do OK. It's not any less complicated than stuff like Magic or Pokemon.
I do agree some people will buy it for the pics, though... that's not a bad thing.
I wonder if they'll sell singles to that purpose? It would make a whole lot of sense, especially at a show like they're doing.
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Post by wildfire on Apr 21, 2011 15:38:32 GMT -4
I saw Knap added White Lion Games as his current employer on Facebook so maybe he's done with FG? White Lion Games seems to be a store (or maybe just an e-tailer) selling Magic Cards... probably not that signifigant to anything FG related. Funnily enough, I found some discussion about them on a MTG board (mostly bad, but whatever.. people whine on message boards) and the guy that posted fro White Lion was named Rob Moore, which is also the name of a long time Legends poster... wonder if that's the same guy? As far as the board goes, he's only posted once (in feb.) since September, which seems a clearer sign he's not doing any FG stuff atm... though he has disappeared for long periods before and come back.
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Post by maddog1981 on Apr 21, 2011 18:21:42 GMT -4
Either TM or Swarm (possibly both) posted on the Chikara boards that the set would be around $30... so if it's much higher they're gonna get some backlash. I think it's not totally out there, though. The GWF color set was initially $49 for what, 36 cards? 38? I'm sure they weren't selling that at a loss. I don't know for sure Knap is gone for good, just that Rob is talking about doing the stats on his board... I thought Mark was gone for good, and he came back (albeit probably briefly) after 6 months of not logging in. I have to disagree with Antimony, though. There's room for all sorts of games in varying complexity in any sport.... APBA Baseball, for instance, is worlds simpler that Strat-O-Matic, but both have their fans. I think the game is great for what it is... a means to run a fed and be creative. It's not a wrestling simulator, certainly... but as long as the bill it properly, they'll do OK. It's not any less complicated than stuff like Magic or Pokemon. I do agree some people will buy it for the pics, though... that's not a bad thing. I wonder if they'll sell singles to that purpose? It would make a whole lot of sense, especially at a show like they're doing. The GWF color set has 60 cards I believe. 48 active male wrestlers, 8 female wrestlers, 2 managers, 1 interference card and 1 commissioner card.
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Post by Dustin on Apr 21, 2011 18:46:22 GMT -4
I'd hate to see LOTF end.
Anyway, I wonder if they plan to go to color with LOW?
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Post by tyguy on Apr 21, 2011 18:54:45 GMT -4
As far as color for LOW, it's definitely a possibility now. That will be the next "big announcement" from FG hqtrs.
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Post by Dustin on Apr 21, 2011 19:22:47 GMT -4
My biggest issue with color is this... what about the backlog of cards? Are they going re-color?
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Post by knapik on Apr 21, 2011 19:33:08 GMT -4
Heys! 1) Swarm and I are doing the stats together. I haven't been around much lately, but I'm still alive haha. We were given a tight deadline for the set - which I am not accustomed to - but managed to send around 18 drafts to Rob to complete. The way I did the stats were updates to the roster, so they would be compatible with LOTF. Yes, they are slightly stronger, but not by an obscene amount. 2) I work at White Lion Games doing inventory and data analysis to make sure we sell things at the correct price. No conflict with Filsinger Games. Different Rob Moore 3) This isn't the death of LOTF to my knowledge. There are still a TON of guys signed that aren't in LOTF or in Chikara. I'm just the stat guy, though, and I haven't been in the loop really. I would suggest that instead of trying to find negatives in this, you guys would embrace the new set. The cards look amazing. Rob does great stats, and it's nice to have a second pair of eyes on things. The backs have some exciting things so far. Without Swarm, we wouldn't have this, and I hope the final result makes everything happy. I won't be back on the boards, really, but hit me up on Facebook sometime! Jon
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Post by wildfire on Apr 21, 2011 20:15:43 GMT -4
My biggest issue with color is this... what about the backlog of cards? Are they going re-color? I sorta felt like doing Online with pics instead of art was sorta a 'test' of that... but I could be wrong. Nice to know you're still around, Knap I don't think anyone's being negative... I'd call it more healthy skepticism. As we all are aware, FG likes to keep things secret... thus, we discuss them @ Maddog: I didn't realize it was that many cards... in that case, $30 seems pretty in line for 24 cards the box and charts.
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Post by maddog1981 on Apr 21, 2011 21:19:22 GMT -4
Yeah, the main color set isn't a terrible deal when you realize it's a 60 card set.
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Post by jasonjaconetti on Apr 23, 2011 21:14:10 GMT -4
Not sure if we saw this, but I will repost it here:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2011 21:31:07 GMT -4
Not sure if we saw this, but I will repost it here: DAMN
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