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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2010 20:59:32 GMT -4
I think the big concern with PDF files is that that they'll lose money because people will just pass the file to others for free. The PDF file thing probably wont change unless they can figure out a way for people who paid for the file to print it out without downloading it That is one point why FG has these bonus cards just for online, a PDF file will be passed a long as they've seen with cotg desktop files. If people ask those who have low online to make copy that is one way to still get the cards, in the end FG knows they need to keep a short leash on what they want to release...
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Post by wildfire on Dec 7, 2010 22:08:26 GMT -4
I think the big concern with PDF files is that that they'll lose money because people will just pass the file to others for free. The PDF file thing probably wont change unless they can figure out a way for people who paid for the file to print it out without downloading it Right, because telling someone your password to let them download a file or print off stats is MUCH more difficult than e-mailing it to them. If people are going to pirate, they're going to pirate, there's little you can do to stop them. What you CAN do is put out a great product that people are willing, even happy to pay for, so that the product will continue. I'm sure you're right, but it's dumb.
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Post by toasterboy on Dec 7, 2010 22:52:50 GMT -4
I don't think we can knock Filsinger Games for NOT releasing things in PDF format because they have (out of print Classic sets). wildfire is right, people will pirate no matter what. I will say that I have all my music up on my website for free download with a little donation button next to it and, even though I'm sure some people download the files and pass them around and don't pay, I actually DO make money. In fact, I make more this way than physical CD sales! I do think the company's stance on COTG Desktop is a little awkward. Mainly, the wording of this... 9a.) This concerns the issue of Filsinger Games and Copyright Protection with regards to Electronic Media. In case anyone for any reason was ever confused, unsure or has been otherwise misinformed by another source, as of this moment the only 'legally authorized' online/electronic entity that is permitted to use Filsinger Games content (ie. it's game play system, mechanics and related material) is CotG Online. There is no other entity that has legal permission from Tom Filsinger to use the FG Gaming System or incorporate the use of copyrighted FG material (or related material) in any form. Because just like CDs and DVDs, once I buy the game, there's a little something called Fair Use - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use Those cards are mine to do with as I please. I don't need Filsinger Games' permission to use the cards in Desktop or a spreadsheet or any other way. Sure, they can keep me from discussing it on the main boards, because they own those boards, but to make it seem like you're an outlaw or criminal for using Desktop is simply not true. But even then, I'm a card stock guy, so even though Desktop is sweet (and it runs nicely on my Mac which is something I can't say about ever aspect of LOW/COTGOnline) I don't use it. Are these three LE cards an incentive to purchase LOWOnline? I don't know. I already own it, but I don't think if I didn't this would push me over the edge. Both COTGOnline and LOW online will do nothing for me the Stat Tracker is completely iPad/iPhone compatible or until there's a iPhone/iPad app that can access the StatTracker data. But with the way iPhone and iPad compatibility requests are shut down and slammed so hard on the main board, I don't see it happening.
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Post by wildfire on Dec 7, 2010 23:50:41 GMT -4
The weirdest thing about the desktop policy is that the guy that wrote it says he has Tom's full support.... not to mention the fact that he GAVE them his source code to use as a basis for the Game Table (which still doesn't work right, btw)
I can 100% understand why they don't want people passing files around, though I disagree with the sentiment.
It's like music... you hear a song on the radio. Could you record it? Sure.
We all do that when we're kids. Then when you grow up, you BUY the stuff you like, because, as an adult, you know that there won't be any more music if you stick with your recording.
Ever saw a buddy reading a book, and asked to borrow it, then bought the rest of the series? Or a video game? Same idea.
What they do at FG is the equivilent of when book publishers tried to claim Amazon had to pay them when they sold a used book, IMO.
It's easy to share stuff on desktop.. but that's a good thing. Say someone checks out the game, but doesn't want to drop the cash for it... they find desktop, and play for a bit. They're pretty likely to BUY the next set, if they like it. They might even buy stuff they were able to track down for free.
Instead, we get people driven away from the game (or at least the online community) for wanting to share their ideas.
Sorry for the rant, but it bugs me alot that FG has such... distorted business sense.
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Post by tyguy on Dec 7, 2010 23:55:15 GMT -4
It's a double edged sword. From the very start of CotG Tom approved of bootlegs and fan created content. Practically every bootleg ever created is on the board, same for LOW. Someone could easily play the game for years without ever buying any official product.
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Post by wildfire on Dec 8, 2010 11:52:37 GMT -4
Yeah, I've pointed that out to LWPD a couple times when he tells me how evil desktop is... especially since a good amount of the guys with official cards can even be found there.
You can get the charts from the demo for LoWOnline. If a person choose to, they could have a LoW fed with pretty much any wrestler they could think of for free, thanks to Mr. Paint's 'archiving'.
He usually answers by insulting me, or telling me to stop whining. (how that's whining, I don't know)
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Post by executioner on Dec 8, 2010 15:12:44 GMT -4
Yeah, I've pointed that out to LWPD a couple times when he tells me how evil desktop is... especially since a good amount of the guys with official cards can even be found there. You can get the charts from the demo for LoWOnline. If a person choose to, they could have a LoW fed with pretty much any wrestler they could think of for free, thanks to Mr. Paint's 'archiving'. He usually answers by insulting me, or telling me to stop whining. (how that's whining, I don't know) You raise a very valid set of points WF, and one that is being ignored/overlooked. I respect protecting the FG product. What I find troubling, and even down right scary, is any "policing" that is being done is happening to long term fans who have legitimate concerns and good intentions. FG grew out of a grass roots fan base. While certain people can deny that, or just pull a WWE style creative retelling of history, FG is still at its core a grass roots company. Part of fostering such a fan base comes from all those at FG listenting to and positively responding to the base. While including Super Crazy as a LOW LE card as a positive form of listening to the base, insulting/ignoring those with valid and constructive criticism is not. Finally, I wonder if someone else put the Bootleg thread together on the official boad, would LWPD feel the same?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2010 15:52:06 GMT -4
I'm a supporter of the game, I still wouldn't be buying the product for all these years going back to 1988. The double edge sword is a key factor with FG, I understand they need to cover their ass but this game started off as a grassroots game / company and it seems the quote bigger thay have gotten, the more it's core base has changed. In the end this will always be my favorite game and I'll support them as long as possible...
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Post by wildfire on Dec 8, 2010 16:43:11 GMT -4
Since I did the same thing here two years ago (not as anal, mind you, just links to the yahoo groups) and LWPD refuses to allow allow any mention of this board on the FG board, never mind a link, I'm thinking probably not
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Post by lwffantrav on Dec 8, 2010 23:41:18 GMT -4
Since I did the same thing here two years ago (not as anal, mind you, just links to the yahoo groups) and LWPD refuses to allow allow any mention of this board on the FG board, never mind a link, I'm thinking probably not Actually, what is the goofy ass reason they refuse to link it? That other board is. Just don't understand the reasoning...
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Post by lwffantrav on Dec 8, 2010 23:43:35 GMT -4
This is OT, but ties into this thread.
My wife is a high school librarian and we were discussing some of this stuff the other night.
we happened to hear about the girl who is supposed to pay back all the royalties to the music company when she downloaded all the music
I asked her if she thought borrowing a book is stealing. Or reading a magazine in the checkout line is stealing. I'm betting my bottom dollar many of these musicians and record executives have did this on many occassions.
Is there a difference in your opinion? Sorry to go OT, but just funny we were discussing it
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Post by tyguy on Dec 8, 2010 23:50:14 GMT -4
How about sitting at Barnes & Noble for as long as you want, reading all the books you want for free.
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Post by lwffantrav on Dec 9, 2010 0:05:19 GMT -4
How about sitting at Barnes & Noble for as long as you want, reading all the books you want for free. How do you think I've read most of the Walking Dead?
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Post by wildfire on Dec 9, 2010 0:22:21 GMT -4
Actually, what is the goofy ass reason they refuse to link it? That other board is. Just don't understand the reasoning... His official reason is because the board 'promotes' desktop. When we started the LWA back up, I wanted to keep it on the official board. He deleted my post announcing it within an hour, and said he would only 'allow' it if I promised him no one would use desktop for it. I told him I could do no such thing, and that I disagreed with the desktop policy... and pointed out he had 1000 free wrestlers on the site he posted, which surely cost FG far more sales than an program approved by Tom that makes it easier for people to enjoy the game, He then told me if I even posted a link to anything or mentioned the LWA again he's ban me permanently, for what I couldn't say. Hence this board The real reason, I suspect, is a combination of Swarm and Co. not liking me much, and Paint realizing I'm right and not wanted to be faced with it
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Post by lwffantrav on Dec 9, 2010 0:43:40 GMT -4
Actually, what is the goofy ass reason they refuse to link it? That other board is. Just don't understand the reasoning... His official reason is because the board 'promotes' desktop. When we started the LWA back up, I wanted to keep it on the official board. He deleted my post announcing it within an hour, and said he would only 'allow' it if I promised him no one would use desktop for it. I told him I could do no such thing, and that I disagreed with the desktop policy... and pointed out he had 1000 free wrestlers on the site he posted, which surely cost FG far more sales than an program approved by Tom that makes it easier for people to enjoy the game, He then told me if I even posted a link to anything or mentioned the LWA again he's ban me permanently, for what I couldn't say. Hence this board The real reason, I suspect, is a combination of Swarm and Co. not liking me much, and Paint realizing I'm right and not wanted to be faced with it How pathetic. I never knew the reason.
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