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Post by Dustin on Feb 7, 2011 16:49:41 GMT -4
What sucks is that, even though I'm not a programmer, this could be easily done with a little money and the right person/people. "Let's just make what we can off of throwing the cards online with the official desktop program." That's what it sounds like. Boy, we sure got the ol' shaft. FG could be making so much more if they just had '10-25% more care' for what we are given. What faithful fans we are.
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Post by maddog1981 on Feb 7, 2011 18:28:50 GMT -4
The problem really is twofold I think. Filsinger Games lacks the man power to do it and I think a big part of the problem is that Tom has never tried to run a fed using Online. I bet if he got on there and started seeing the frustrations with Online that he would start pushing the guys running that end to start fixing stuff. They could be making huge bucks off of Online if they really focused on it.
My thing with Legends Online and LOW in general. There's no reason to go more than 6 months without getting a new card of some sort. Especially Online. They could be releasing guys constantly. I know just from getting a few names dropped in conversations that there are tons of guys signed that would never get a card but could get released Online.
I just can't fathom that it's been almost a year since they've released new wrestlers for Online. Who's going to play with the selection that's out there currently? There's barely a tag team division and the roster isn't very balanced at all.
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Post by tyguy on Feb 7, 2011 18:31:12 GMT -4
I remember when the computer thing was going to come out being stunned it was online. I really wanted a computer game to install on my pc and play. Online loses its luster when you can't play against other people.
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Post by Dustin on Feb 7, 2011 19:13:36 GMT -4
My thoughts exactly, MD.
Also, I only use the game table. I don't set anything up online due to it being a mindfuck.
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Post by Dustin on Feb 7, 2011 23:30:21 GMT -4
Chad Olson said I had a really good idea on LWPD's forum.
Since it'll be deleted, I'll post my reply.
[ If online/cardstock don't become somewhat even, online will die. So many people would be willing to help with 'adding stats to the online program and uploading card art.' That's money in FG's pocket, really. Also, why not just tell us who will not make it online. Adding a Young Race / Heel Snuka / Young Heenan does not make up for how long it's been since LEGENDSonline players got any light shined on its future. Thank you, Chad. However, Legends 10 should have been released online and cardstock at the same time. That would boost sales, I'm sure. Also, it would make me feel like spending $68 was worth it. ]
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Post by MT on Feb 8, 2011 9:22:09 GMT -4
My thoughts exactly, MD. Also, I only use the game table. I don't set anything up online due to it being a mindfuck. I love the card editor. Once you get the hang of it it's very easy and organizes things quite nicely. The only feature I don't like as it stands if the PBP sim. It just doesn't work right and never has. I don't know the ins and outs of it, but I still can't figure out why he'd want to space out the legends releases instead of releasing the new stuff both online and in print at the same time. If COTG were done like that there's no way I'd be playing COTGOnline right now. The assumption seems to be that everyone who plays is buying everything and they're interchangeable. That is just not realistic. When the websites, including online, went out for about two days last week (third outage in two months) Tom replied on the message board that people would just have to get out the cards and dice until it was back. I don't have 2125 in carstock yet, so I couldn't do that. I know he was trying to put a positive spin on a bad situation, but it showed the mindset of online kind of being an ancillary product instead of a viable entity of it's own. I had always assumed that once he was done playing catch up and released those first three online sets that everything would start to run like COTG where we'd get concurrent print and digital releases. I believe that would have helped the appeal of Legends Online immensely. With the current release format it just feels like a dead product. By the time another expansion set hits there's nothing new about it; it's a stale re-release of a handful of wrestlers who've either been in print for many months or many years. The fact of the matter is that he was playing catch-up with Legends Online from day one and I think the various difficulties inherent to working around all of the contracts and various legal and logistical issues overwhelmed the project in a hurry. Offering Legends 10 in both formats at once would have revitalized it I believe, but that's not the route he decided to go. Of course, I'm not in business for myself so I've never been put in this position and it's not fair for me to armchair quarterback, so to speak.
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Post by wildfire on Feb 8, 2011 9:48:42 GMT -4
As a person who works for a person in business for themselves (much like Tom), I can tell you that most of the issues LIKELY stem from one source... laying out money.
Sure, it seems clear that by spending the couple hundred bucks to get a set online, he makes lots more, but you still have to spend that money.
From what I know about FG, getting money from them is VERY hard. Even WERNER was offered 'products' in the form on online access for the card art. I can tell you Online would be in a much better state if FG had been willing to pay BDS for even half the hours he actually worked on Online.
@ Mark: I hate the 'new' card editor. I find it takes longer to set up a card using it then any other method I've ever used...the old interface was not great , but better than this one. That combined with the fact that it doesn't post the results for you after you play a match, so that you have to go and do that for every one, and it was taking me just as long (possibly longer) to play and write a card using the PBP sim than with cards and dice.
Maybe it would have got better with use, but it shouldn't have to get better with use.. it should just be good, you know.
Have you ever noticed how long it takes you to book/play/write and online card? And compared it to doing it with the dice?
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Post by MT on Feb 8, 2011 10:03:55 GMT -4
I like it because it makes posting the cards online a breeze: I just copy and paste. I keep card editor open in a separate tab and play the matches, then bounce back and input the results, and bounce right back to game table for the next match. When I do it like that I find that it's comparable to dice and paper. The card set-up, of course, is longer than just sorting through the stack of cards and pulling them out for matches, but I consider that time well spent since I post results online and don't have to take ten-fifteen minutes writing them all up anymore. It's a trade off in that I find I'm saving time on the back end for spending a few minutes setting up.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 10:15:55 GMT -4
I was near done playing the game, but CotGonline at launch brought me back but then using real cards and CotGDesktop was being used while online sat there...
After all these years I find real cards, dice and paper to be easier than online and much more fun...
I understand the ease for most using Online, but for me it doesn't have the same vibe that I get from the classic way, plus after having Squire helping me to fix my desktop issues that were never fixed I said screw it...
Now it would've been cool if CotG/LOW were a program you had on you computer or othe device and you didnt rely on it being online, overall Online will suffer the issues it has until more more money is put into it to fix it, but will that ever happen is the question...
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Post by wildfire on Feb 8, 2011 10:19:04 GMT -4
I like it because it makes posting the cards online a breeze: I just copy and paste. I keep card editor open in a separate tab and play the matches, then bounce back and input the results, and bounce right back to game table for the next match. When I do it like that I find that it's comparable to dice and paper. The card set-up, of course, is longer than just sorting through the stack of cards and pulling them out for matches, but I consider that time well spent since I post results online and don't have to take ten-fifteen minutes writing them all up anymore. It's a trade off in that I find I'm saving time on the back end for spending a few minutes setting up. Yeah, that's probably true. taking a few notes while you're playing then sitting down to write the card to post does take time. I think it's the fact that it should be much easier that bugs me. IMO, you should be able to play a match on the game table, then click on an 'add to current card' button, and poof!, there it is. Then all you'd have to add is your creative parts (interviews and the like).
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Post by jasonjaconetti on Feb 8, 2011 10:22:21 GMT -4
The upside of the PBP is the speed at getting the matches done, so that you can write up the shows. It is meerly a time issue for me, as playing with cards and Desktop take longer to do.
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Post by wildfire on Feb 8, 2011 10:30:11 GMT -4
When it first was release the PBP sim had great promise... I was SO excited. Recent updates have really messed it up.
Tag matches are pretty much unplayable.. the AI for when tags are made is seriously broken.. and there are so many typos it really makes me not confident in the results.
I had plans to run a old school version of the GWF, with 3 or 4 hosue shows a week, running similar cards all over the galaxy... like the 80s WWF. But it took so long to set up the cards and enter the results I gave up on it pretty quickly.
What the whole system needs, IMO, is someone working on it to update/upgrade/fix problems. They don't have that.. Squire is just a fireman, really, fixing things if they break badly enough for people to complain. We had that early on, and there was alot more going on as far as suggestions, updates and the like... now, it just sits there.
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Post by MT on Feb 8, 2011 11:36:28 GMT -4
I agree with CC: cards and dice will always be my favorite way to play. Also, if the game were made available where it wasn't reliant on an online connection and whether the server was up or running it'd be nice. Very nice.
PBP sim does let you speed through, but it is pretty broken; I notice phantom momentum changes quite often, it doesn't pick up on any many of the special instructions like "roll" moves and several other situations, and other glitchy things pop up during a simulated match that effect the outcome.
The game table and the other features are not integrated and run independently of each other. That's why there's no option like wildfire suggests; the stat tracker and the game table cannot communicate with one another. I don't know the ins and outs of it but I'm not sure there would be a way to integrate them without completely changing the way the game table runs.
I'll tell you the main draw to playing COTGOnline for me; the immediacy of it. I can play the day or release of the latest expansion set. In print I pay and then wait however many days for it to arrive. If the latest expansion wasn't available the day of release of the print version (as is the case with Legends) then I wouldn't be playing online. Well, except for aCe, which isn't available any other way. So I suppose the other draw outside of the GWF stuff is "content not available anywhere else" which is another place where Legends Online loses out.
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Post by Dustin on Feb 8, 2011 11:50:51 GMT -4
All I and we can do is make it known how we feel. Chad Olson said it's a good idea to have LOW online/cardstock come out at the same time. If April comes around and the new online set sucks, I'll probably quit and go back to cardstock. I'd just wish that everything that they gave us would stop being labeled as EARTH SHATTERING, THE BIGGEST THING IN THE GALAXY, and LEGENDS GREATNESS COMING... Yeah, we got the "new" Race, Snuka, and Heenan. That was pretty lame for those of us who spent the money to play LOW Online and, ultimately, were forgotten about.
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Post by MT on Feb 8, 2011 11:58:47 GMT -4
It wouldn't hurt to release a guy like Blue Meanie or Giant Bernard or someone online first and then in print to see if that would stir some excitement. BUT, then the guys who only buy in print may get upset. They'd have to make it real clear that they were just premiering online and would be available in print later. Offering the alternate versions of existing guys was a baby step, in my opinion (say what you will about the choices, it was an honest attempt). Doing something like debuting someone online first would show a real commitment of support for the product.
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